US spec Ecoboost 1.0 conversion to Euro Spec Zetec S/ST Line

teeth

New Member
Messages
5
Likes
0
#1
New here.

I'm assuming you can source the following either from a wrecked US spec ST or directly from Ford:

Transmission
Hubs/brakes (all)
Springs
Dampers
Swaybar

Plus of course all the plastic trim, seats, etc, which I am less concerned about, but that gets you part of the way there.

I bet someone sells a tune, but what about torque vectoring? What else am I missing? Anybody out there done this?

I'll probably just get an ST, but building a Zetec S conversion appeals to me and I'd do it if I go the car and parts cheap enough.

I did use the search function, but if there are any good build threads on this I couldn't find them, please share.
 
Messages
147
Likes
17
#2
What are you trying to end up with? First issue is cost. Second one is probably the hurdles of integrating ST functional things, like torque vectoring if you were to choose a 1.0 hatchback Fiesta as the starting point. Cost considerations aside, and there is many. It would be easier/cheaper to add the ST front suspension, Revo Knuckles and steering rack to the 1.0 car. The bumper facias and extra trim are simply gingerbread. The ST rocker skirts would be difficult and expensive because they are designed to be installed on an ST body shell that has special provisions for attachment. So, maybe a 3D carbon body trim kit would be both cheaper and easier. As long as you are spending your kids college money, you might as well have some kick ass driving lamps wired in and installed. The Hell of it is that you will have a car that is not substantially different than what you began throwing parts at! The end result of all the expenses and effort would probably be a perfectly good example of why the ST is so effing brilliant right off the showroom floor.
 
Last edited:

teeth

New Member
Messages
5
Likes
0
#3
What are you trying to end up with? First issue is cost. Second one is probably the hurdles of integrating ST functional things, like torque vectoring if you were to choose a 1.0 hatchback Fiesta as the starting point. Cost considerations aside, and there is many. It would be easier/cheaper to add the ST front suspension, Revo Knuckles and steering rack to the 1.0 car. The bumper facias and extra trim are simply gingerbread. The ST rocker skirts would be difficult and expensive because they are designed to be installed on an ST body shell that has special provisions for attachment. So, maybe a 3D carbon body trim kit would be both cheaper and easier. As long as you are spending your kids college money, you might as well have some kick ass driving lamps wired in and installed. The Hell of it is that you will have a car that is not substantially different than what you began throwing parts at! The end result of all the expenses and effort would probably be a perfectly good example of why the ST is so effing brilliant right off the showroom floor.
Let me put the critical question first: Can I run a US market 1.0 ecoboost with the ST 6 speed transmission using the ECU that came with the US 1.0 car and have torque vectoring that functions as it would on a Zetec S or US ST?

If not, is it feasible to purchase a Euro spec ECU, and if so, are there differences in the harness or is it pretty much plug an play?

I'm trying to end up with something that is the best functional equivalent to a Euro market Zetec S possible using off the shelf (or picked from the yard) US parts, i.e. less power than an ST, but with ST brakes and suspension, less weight and better MPG. I actually care nothing about what it looks like, so I'd leave SE body kit, such as it is, alone. Like I said, I already know the ST suspension pieces all bolt on, and I have some confidence that I could find a donor and do the work. I've read that an ST 6 speed transmission also bolts up to the 1.0, and I know that it's also already possible to get a 1.0 tune that improves power to at least the Euro market specs. What I do not know is whether there are ECU limitations I can't see that would prevent me from getting the full benefit of these parts when installed on a US market SE 1.0 as upgrades.
 
Messages
147
Likes
17
#4
Ok. From what I have seen up close, and read. The clutch disc size on the 1.0 is smaller than the ST components. The 6 speed transaxle may have some ratios that would not be a good match for the 1.0 power band. Torque vectoring would be an ST power train feature. I doubt it can be cloned, transferred or made otherwise functional on a 1.0 given the different characteristics of the two cars. Torque vectoring is an ABS related feature. So, if what you want is better exit speeds or some traction benefits in high speed situations, Quaife makes a mechanical locking differential that is wonderful. Many ST owners despise TV because of the heat and brake wear it incurs in track driving.
 

teeth

New Member
Messages
5
Likes
0
#5
Thanks for some good info.
The 6 speed transaxle may have some ratios that would not be a good match for the 1.0 power band.
Well maybe, but the Euro market Zetec S 1.0 got a 6 speed which I assume is identical to the 6 speed in the US ST, no? Can anybody actually confirm or deny this and explain the differences if they exist?

This is the information I am really trying to get! What are the real differences between the 1.0 cars we can get and the better ones that we cannot?

Any issues with the "1.0 powerband" could presumably be addressed by tuning.
Torque vectoring would be an ST power train feature
Ummm. No it isn't. It's a feature of the ecu and the brakes. It's possible that there's not really any difference in this system across any Fiesta, or then again it may be tuned differently for ST/Zetec etc.. That's why I'm asking. Anybody actually KNOW? Obviously torque vectoring does eat brakes, but it also gets much of the credit for Fiesta's much lauded handling balance. Yes a Quaife is better, but it's also very expensive and a pain to install--though I appreciate the tip, as that would indeed be a good workaround if it became the main issue with upgrading a US 1.0 car into something more like its sportier Euro market brethren.
 
Last edited:
Messages
147
Likes
17
#6
Maybe! The engine controls in Europe and the U.S. markets are different! You are basically trying to find a way to make an apple taste like an orange! The communication protocols are different for the systems. I'm not trashing the idea, I'm seriously questioning the viability of doing it. The 1.0 is a fuel economy car. The ST is not. It would cost about the same as a clean low mileage ST just to gather the stock components from both cars to then try to get one running version of the blended Fiesta. That's not saying that it would be a drivable car.
 

teeth

New Member
Messages
5
Likes
0
#7
Hello, is there any intelligent life on this planet?

Maybe someone that actually lives in Europe and maybe likes their Zetec S that is neither a "fuel economy car" or an ST?

The communication protocols are different for the systems.
Umm, no again. Yes the software is different. It is extremely unlikely to be running on different hardware or written in different code.

Digging a bit elsewhere reveals that torque vectoring is actually tuneable in the ECU code as well, so if it is possible to tune boost/fuel/ignition for all models (and it is) then it is likely also possible to tune torque vectoring behavior for all models.

The main issue is that the current tuning solutions that I can find are proprietary, so if I really want to do anything I want with a 1.0 car, it will require either acquiring some fairly intense reverse engineering skills or a willingness to pay a tuner. I'm a half-decent tuner and able to reverse engineer code, so if there's a good thread on DIY tuning for the Fiesta family in general, I'd read it.

The idea was simply to pick up a good used SE 1.0 and gradually upgrade with ST parts over time when/if I can find a good deal in a yard.

I'm glad to see that everyone in the US is happy with the limited selection available here--thank goodness they just killed the whole car so we don't get any more, lol!
 
Messages
147
Likes
17
#8
The ST forums have had some extensive discussion on the difference between the U.S. and the European Fiesta ST versions. I don't know of one human being who has had access to Both versions of the Fiesta ST, let alone ALL versions of the basic Fiesta. It is an exercise in conjecture at this point. Most of the people who are interested in Fiesta discussion are not trying to essentially create a different Fiesta, they are simply trying to enhance it. You could send Ford motor company an email? But, I'm guessing that you are going to hear crickets chirping in response.
 

teeth

New Member
Messages
5
Likes
0
#9
Thanks, man. Sorry if I sounded frustrated--you tried pretty hard to give me some information in a vacuum and, having continued to poke around, I believe you are correct that pretty much nobody but Ford knows what's different between US and Euro spec cars/parts. Also, I'm far more likely to go the easy route an just by an ST, but I'd still consider an 1.0 ecoboost for the right price and I did find some builds where folks have done more or less what I would do with one.

Because there is so little info around, here's a synopsis of what I could dig up for anyone with a similar idea--I suppose in a perfect world I'd share the links, but I didn't save them and I have no motivation to spread false information, so y'all will have to trust me and/or do your additional research:

US cars and 100hp Euro cars share the same turbo, Euro cars with 125 and 140hp factory tunes have a turbo with an exhaust wheel of the same shape and size, but made from a different (slightly better) heat resistant alloy. Some tuners in Europe will not sell tunes for the 100hp cars, though the difference is relatively minor and shouldn't be an issue, in theory.

I didn't look up the ratios (though it's probably possible) but the Euro-market Ecoboost 6-speeds are not identical to the ST boxes, even it they fit--that doesn't mean upgrading to an ST 6 speed wouldn't be a potentially reasonable thing to do, just that they aren't the same. In all cases the transmission seems to be the weak link when upgrading power.

The only US owner that I could find that reviewed the tune available for US cars from Pumaspeed was not particularly happy with his customer service but found the tune worked fine under most conditions. High altitude, however, seemed to max out the turbo and fail to produce additional power (for those interested in pushing hard above 7000ft).

All Fiestas have torque vectoring. Some tuners claim to be able to adjust it to suit the installation of a torsen LSD for ST models, which suggests that it is theoretically possible to do for any model, but also that it might not really be necessary.

For anybody that's still reading, I'm still surprised there isn't more discussion between US/Euro owners about parts and differences, i.e. perhaps it's actually illegal or something (or at least difficult to program without assistance from a dealer that might not want to do it) but it would seem possible to either flash an ECU with a Euro OEM tune or simply swap the whole module--shipping from Europe is not that crazy and I'm sure spares are available at this point.
 
Messages
147
Likes
17
#10
Thanks, man. Sorry if I sounded frustrated--you tried pretty hard to give me some information in a vacuum and, having continued to poke around, I believe you are correct that pretty much nobody but Ford knows what's different between US and Euro spec cars/parts. Also, I'm far more likely to go the easy route an just by an ST, but I'd still consider an 1.0 ecoboost for the right price and I did find some builds where folks have done more or less what I would do with one.

Because there is so little info around, here's a synopsis of what I could dig up for anyone with a similar idea--I suppose in a perfect world I'd share the links, but I didn't save them and I have no motivation to spread false information, so y'all will have to trust me and/or do your additional research:

US cars and 100hp Euro cars share the same turbo, Euro cars with 125 and 140hp factory tunes have a turbo with an exhaust wheel of the same shape and size, but made from a different (slightly better) heat resistant alloy. Some tuners in Europe will not sell tunes for the 100hp cars, though the difference is relatively minor and shouldn't be an issue, in theory.

I didn't look up the ratios (though it's probably possible) but the Euro-market Ecoboost 6-speeds are not identical to the ST boxes, even it they fit--that doesn't mean upgrading to an ST 6 speed wouldn't be a potentially reasonable thing to do, just that they aren't the same. In all cases the transmission seems to be the weak link when upgrading power.

The only US owner that I could find that reviewed the tune available for US cars from Pumaspeed was not particularly happy with his customer service but found the tune worked fine under most conditions. High altitude, however, seemed to max out the turbo and fail to produce additional power (for those interested in pushing hard above 7000ft).

All Fiestas have torque vectoring. Some tuners claim to be able to adjust it to suit the installation of a torsen LSD for ST models, which suggests that it is theoretically possible to do for any model, but also that it might not really be necessary.

For anybody that's still reading, I'm still surprised there isn't more discussion between US/Euro owners about parts and differences, i.e. perhaps it's actually illegal or something (or at least difficult to program without assistance from a dealer that might not want to do it) but it would seem possible to either flash an ECU with a Euro OEM tune or simply swap the whole module--shipping from Europe is not that crazy and I'm sure spares are available at this point.
. You aren't totally alone in your curiosity. But, there are several impediments to creating a "blended" version of the Fiesta that discourage most people. The first and biggest one being the tools and methods required to make the changes on the operating systems. In many cases we are talking about thousands of dollars for just one device that is capable of adjusting, even in the tiniest of increments that may be allowed within the various processers or controllers. Again, just That is a huge limitation. To say nothing of the skill sets required to competently use them. The second issue, also costly, is the difference between the U.S. versions and those on the Continent. They have many differences in detail, suppliers and structural design changes. Nobody should shrug off or trivialize the differences! They are many. Thirdly, the reason for more power train variations on the European cars is that taxes are levied on the engine displacement of vehicles. So the cost of any given car is affected by the taxes imposed on it's buyer! Ford does not offer three or four engine choices just because the European buyer wants to have a choice between a 1.0/1.3/1.6 and a diesel. These things are driven by government regulations and tax policy! Finally. The lack of response from the aftermarket is directly related to the lack of demand from Fiesta owners standing in line with their wallets pulled out. The first two reasons just magnify and reinforce the lack of response. Consumer demand drives markets. I have decided to take the view that Ford got it mostly right in what Fiesta they offered the buyer in America. But, the buyer turned to other choices. That doesn't make the Fiesta less attractive to me. I also own a 69 Mustang Mach one and a V10 F350 four wheel drive. So, I have broad needs and tastes.
 
Messages
147
Likes
17
#11
You might want to visit a Ford dealership and see if you can still get this 3.25:1 final drive ratio ring gear. It was offered to buyers on certain 2012 Fiesta SES hatchbacks as means of improving the acceleration. I grabbed one as a service part to use in conjunction with the Quaife differential. But, no performance reflash and improved camshaft kit was ever released, so I shelved it for the future. One of these in concert with the Quaife and some really lightweight wheels and a smooth intake/low restriction air filter element and a catback muffler system might just get you within the margins of expectation of improvement to a 1.0 liter Ecoboost. The only downside is that the 3.25 final drive will reduce the top speed capability. Basically the same as the ST 200 draw back that made that variant quicker but slower. I recall that this part was not over $100 bucks. It should be an easy and totally doable upgrade to the 5 speed box. IMG_20190618_164619.jpg
 
Last edited:


Top