Clutch failure?

[Plain Jane]

Wife took the car to work and texted me saying there was a noticeable lack of power while trying to accelerate. I dropped by on her lunch break to take a look at the car. No engine codes, but a strong odor of what I'd describe as new tires came from under the hood. Drove it in the parking lot and noticed the clutch pedal felt different. Take-up was slower/mushier, would judder at the friction point and sure enough the clutch would slip if you applied too much throttle (¼ normal throttle was about the max amount before it'd slip). Brake fluid is clear and full. Could I have a broken release spring? Car was perfectly fine the night before.

Booked an appointment at a local transmission shop for a diagnosis but they won't be able to see the car till next Thursday. Anything special I should know about these 5 speeds, and what could I expect to pay for a full clutch job? Car has less than 85k kilometers. Seems rather premature.

Thanks

 

[Handy Andy]

Sounds something similar to what had happened to me on another Brand vehicle - but deals with the throw - or length of pedal operation before and AFTER your release the clutch - for if it doesn't return up to it's stop all the way, the piston and or cable doesn't fully release the clutch - it will put pressure on the plate and cause the clutch to slip at specific high torque moments while in gear.

How mine "failed" was due to a sensor that tell the system the clutch is not fully released - if you tightened the cable to reduce the slack (grab point) too much, the pedal stayed off that switch too long and would make the car hesitate. Because of the idle control the thing was used for - as a pedal location sensor - so it wouldn't stall - if left too long out - it would "cutout" killing the motor by forcing the motor down into idle speed .

Sometimes you'll hear it as chatter or even feel it as (in Front wheel drive) a type of shake or shudder.

But you mentioned "odor of Tire" which can mean clutch media that got too hot and or worn brake pads and the front tires dragged on the drive-line forcing the clutch to wear even faster. To know the brake fluid is fine helps - but if the pads and or their clips they rest in the cradle of the caliper - are worn or full of dirt the caliper piston won't retract the pads away from the rotor and can make the car seem (act) like it's sluggish. You'd be able to test it by seeing how easily it rolls when in neutral brake off - if it goes easily enough - then the issue is with the clutch not the brakes. You'd also know by after a short drive and felt the tires - may be too hot to the touch - then that wheel or pair of wheels is causing the drag.

 

[Plain Jane]

Clutch situation update: *all prices will be in CAD*

Dropped off the car at a reputable transmission shop yesterday and got the quote today. Original estimate was $1848.72 tax-in for an aftermarket Luk clutch kit ($619.80) and flywheel resurface ($120). We looked into OEM parts and found a Ford flywheel in Edmonton for $171.60 and Ford clutch kit in Ontario for $532 minus slave cylinder, which the shop says they can likely reuse my original. They ordered an OEM slave cylinder for $100 just in case and will only be charged if it's needed. Total for the work is $1807.23 for everything (6.9 hours labor). I'm still miffed as to why the clutch failed at only 85k kilometers on the car. I'm no Senna, but I know how to drive and have never had an issue like this with any other manual car I've ever owned. Is this estimate reasonable?

 

[Handy Andy]

You actually got off easy - seen estimates closer to $3K in parts and labor with the transmission being rebuilt - about $2K in cost alone.

Hope the LUK clutch works out for you. Glad to know they have it for your Fiesta.

The resurface of the flywheel is interesting - this tells me the media did a lot of damage - but was it from lack of use (rusted flywheel) or the media itself getting contaminated with fluid (Brake from hydraulic clutch) or oil seal either from the tranny side or otherwise.

But also raises questions of someone hot-dogging it - but that would also show up as other concerns like radiator and coolant - it would have a lot of air trapped in the motor - you'd see it as bubbles and foaming at the coolant tank when you unscrewed the cap when it's warmed up but not too hot - onto you'd hear the water pump struggle with bearing noises and belt squeal if it got too dry where the fluid got too foamed up or cavitated lowering the coolant level below an effective level to push fluid thru.

 

[Plain Jane]

You actually got off easy - seen estimates closer to $3K in parts and labor with the transmission being rebuilt - about $2K in cost alone.

Hope the LUK clutch works out for you. Glad to know they have it for your Fiesta.

The resurface of the flywheel is interesting - this tells me the media did a lot of damage - but was it from lack of use (rusted flywheel) or the media itself getting contaminated with fluid (Brake from hydraulic clutch) or oil seal either from the tranny side or otherwise.

But also raises questions of someone hot-dogging it - but that would also show up as other concerns like radiator and coolant - it would have a lot of air trapped in the motor - you'd see it as bubbles and foaming at the coolant tank when you unscrewed the cap when it's warmed up but not too hot - onto you'd hear the water pump struggle with bearing noises and belt squeal if it got too dry where the fluid got too foamed up or cavitated lowering the coolant level below an effective level to push fluid thru.

What do you mean by hot-dogging it? Car was tested by the shop but doubt anything was taken apart before ordering any of the parts. We're getting an OEM Ford clutch kit for about $90 less than the aftermarket Luk clutch, although it doesn't come with the slave cylinder. Resurfacing the flywheel was the original idea before we found a brand new one for $50 more so went with that instead. The car drove perfectly fine when we parked it last, and started slipping the very next morning. I suspected a leak at first so put a big piece of cardboard under it and didn't see a drop of fluid for a solid week. My best guess now is a broken release spring? Brake fluid was at the full level too

 

[Handy Andy]

What do you mean by hot-dogging it?

Did she let someone borrow the car?

The transmission - if it fails catastrophically - will give someone results like what you described in the original post, but if everything else was good and fine, Before the incident - the only other options are leaning more towards someone "Borrowing" the car and doing things with it they shouldn't.

Broken spring will make the clutch grab differently - like never truly release which raises age issues and if someone had to borrow the car and didn't know how to work a clutch.

Even someone asking to a jump using battery cables, the TCM might be affected but this is a manual - so you are in control of the shifter and if Brakes are working - it's not the fluids, unless the bearing has gone out but that would only affect the clutch system, not the whole transmission.

 

[Plain Jane]

Did she let someone borrow the car?

The transmission - if it fails catastrophically - will give someone results like what you described in the original post, but if everything else was good and fine, Before the incident - the only other options are leaning more towards someone "Borrowing" the car and doing things with it they shouldn't.

Broken spring will make the clutch grab differently - like never truly release which raises age issues and if someone had to borrow the car and didn't know how to work a clutch.

Even someone asking to a jump using battery cables, the TCM might be affected but this is a manual - so you are in control of the shifter and if Brakes are working - it's not the fluids, unless the bearing has gone out but that would only affect the clutch system, not the whole transmission.

Throw-out bearing would make a noise wouldn't it? There is no grinding, crunching or any other irregular noises while shifting or driving. It just slips when given more than ¼ throttle. Nobody else besides us have driven the car for a long time. We put 30k on the car since buying it and it's worked flawlessly until now. She drives it like a grandma. I'll do the occasional on-ramp pull to redline. No clutch dumps, burnouts or anything like that and my rev match downshifting is usually quite accurate. Not always perfect, but may only mistime it a tad on the odd occasion. But maybe I'm just making excuses? Dunno, been driving stick for a long time and have never had a clutch go out, especially this early :/

 

[Handy Andy]

Hmm. Ok, the reason I have to ask is because of the concern, the main one is are they replacing just the clutch?

The other concern is the accumulated damage the clutch may have - being that it is going bad - affected the synchronous gears used in the transmission but if the shift is ok for now, then the Clutch itself and it's throw-out bearing (usually they replace both) but yes, you will need them to replace both - and at least show you - so you can inspect - what was in there so you can verify the story of how this failure occurred.

You realize the level this has grown into - from a simple - sniffed odor of something burnt onto now a clutch and it's pack - failure. Which if left unto itself seems simple enough but in every way - this type of event costs some time and money and the inconveniences arise from having to wait it out. We haven't even gone into the residual damages possible from these things happening (to the transmission)

Keep us posted on this.

Thank you.

 

[Plain Jane]

Hmm. Ok, the reason I have to ask is because of the concern, the main one is are they replacing just the clutch?

The other concern is the accumulated damage the clutch may have - being that it is going bad - affected the synchronous gears used in the transmission but if the shift is ok for now, then the Clutch itself and it's throw-out bearing (usually they replace both) but yes, you will need them to replace both - and at least show you - so you can inspect - what was in there so you can verify the story of how this failure occurred.

You realize the level this has grown into - from a simple - sniffed odor of something burnt onto now a clutch and it's pack - failure. Which if left unto itself seems simple enough but in every way - this type of event costs some time and money and the inconveniences arise from having to wait it out. We haven't even gone into the residual damages possible from these things happening (to the transmission)

Keep us posted on this.

Thank you.

One thing worth noting is the car would sometimes pop out of 1st gear when driving down the hill we live on on a cold engine. Maybe 1 in 10 times? I typically use as much of the engine breaking abilities of my cars as possible, which the Fiesta has very little. Could that be an inherent clutch or transmission issue?

They are replacing the flywheel and complete clutch kit while reusing the original slave cylinder

 

[Handy Andy]

Hmm...using 1st gear on a engine braking issue is kind of risky on the issue of the torque you have from the spin the thing uses to slow the trans-axle down.

That ratio is pretty high - even a 12MPH the things hitting +3K RPM so that puts the torque of the input shaft from the engine in pretty high levels of resistance against the wheels putting in back towards the engine on the output side. It's a lot on the two shafts and their splines in the transmission.

Would recommend to reduce the speed using a higher gear like 3rd to 2nd and let the creep you get down to in 2nd let you put your shifter into first gear.

Why?
High engine vacuum can put the PCV valve in a position to suck out oil and throw into the intake manifold if you create too much vacuum during a braking maneuver - it can stall the motor from the oil collection in the manifold trying to reburn.

 

[Plain Jane]

Hmm...using 1st gear on a engine braking issue is kind of risky on the issue of the torque you have from the spin the thing uses to slow the trans-axle down.

That ratio is pretty high - even a 12MPH the things hitting +3K RPM so that puts the torque of the input shaft from the engine in pretty high levels of resistance against the wheels putting in back towards the engine on the output side. It's a lot on the two shafts and their splines in the transmission.

Would recommend to reduce the speed using a higher gear like 3rd to 2nd and let the creep you get down to in 2nd let you put your shifter into first gear.

Why?
High engine vacuum can put the PCV valve in a position to suck out oil and throw into the intake manifold if you create too much vacuum during a braking maneuver - it can stall the motor from the oil collection in the manifold trying to reburn.

Noted. Won't use 1st coming down hills anymore

Got the car back. They had to use a new slave cylinder and even threw in a complimentary p0301 code. Also the rear shocks are leaking. Fun.

Ride home seemed fine. Deleted the code. Will see if it comes back

 

[Plain Jane]

Cylinder #1 and #4 misfiring. Back to the shop.