HELP Timing issue (I think) 2015 Ford fiesta SE 1.6

[Julianj]

I recently did a water pump replacement on a 2015 Ford fiesta. The first time everything went well started right up, but the shitty gasket I got with the pump happened to be slightly out of place and it leaked a little. So I got a new gasket, tore it all back apart and fixed it. For the timing, I did use a cam locking tool. But I had to take it off at one point, and the cam gear closest to the firewall shifted back from around 12-1oclock position to around 10. I ended up using my hand and manually twisted it back to 12-1 position as the other one , and proceeded putting everything back together. When I went to put tension on the belt there was a little slack in the opposite side of the tensioner pulley from under the cam gear towards the bottom crank. When I did put tension on it everything tightened back up nicely. I hand cranked it around about 3 times and the marks I made for 12oclock lined up perfectly I think. I put everything on, filled up with water went to start and it just keeps cranking no fire. Any help would be appreciated. Also tips on the stretch belt would be helpful. It is a pain even with the tool and I've mangled the belt with zip ties Everytime. It would be preferred if I didn't have to take the cam cover off. So once again, any help is appreciated to get my car back running again.

 

[Handy Andy]

When you took it all apart, it should also have set a Check Engine DTC code you should be able to find in the system even with a simple code scanner..

If it didn't then the full - test/initialization it needs as a system check, didn't complete. How? - even a Fuel Pump relay or a loose harness - can cause this. Why? Because power or data has to come back from that sensor or sub-system to tell the system were alive. If it's not then set either a DTC code, or no start it just cranks - which usually means a blown or pulled fuse or pulled relay that didn't get put back it its right place.

• In conditions like that, it wouldn't set a code right away - because it's not initialized - being the system that should be there, isn't sending power or data. So it keep the codes off until the routine can see a problem, or with it being powered, can't set a code because it doesn't know what could be going on - diagnostics at it's finest.
• Murphy was an Optimist...

Just double check the work. It sounds like you have it close to being right, the only way to know that is when the system can see everything as it tries to start it.

 

[Julianj]

When you took it all apart, it should also have set a Check Engine DTC code you should be able to find in the system even with a simple code scanner..

If it didn't then the full - test/initialization it needs as a system check, didn't complete. How? - even a Fuel Pump relay or a loose harness - can cause this. Why? Because power or data has to come back from that sensor or sub-system to tell the system were alive. If it's not then set either a DTC code, or no start it just cranks - which usually means a blown or pulled fuse or pulled relay that didn't get put back it its right place.

• In conditions like that, it wouldn't set a code right away - because it's not initialized - being the system that should be there, isn't sending power or data. So it keep the codes off until the routine can see a problem, or with it being powered, can't set a code because it doesn't know what could be going on - diagnostics at it's finest.
• Murphy was an Optimist...

Just double check the work. It sounds like you have it close to being right, the only way to know that is when the system can see everything as it tries to start it.

I have it all apart right now, I hand cranked the motor a few times and both cams on top line up perfectly. So I don't know what the issue is. I read that if the timings messed up somehow not to keep cranking as it can bend rods and ruin the engine. I never pulled any wiring harnesses or fuses to do the job no electrical at all besides the alternator. So I don't know what the issue is. The battery died halfway through the job as well. I can't see anything that's visibly wrong with it although I'm not a professional. I read online also that the bottom crank pulley could go out of top dead center and not line up with the cams but I never cranked it while the timing belt is off. So I have no idea what to do at this point.

 

[Handy Andy]

Check the Cylinder head - is the valve train works - are the cams turning?

If that is the case then things are good to a point.

The bent rods - you'd see the cams (or arms) lobbing or a snapping tingling sound from the valve springs - due to the damage it will transfer up into the valve train.

What I'm thinking here is you just may not have spark due to a broken wire in the harness or the coil pack is failed - refusing to spark. You'd also smell fuel when you crank because the raw fuel not being burned is passing thru the system and out the exhaust pipe.

If you don't have both, then something further up the creek is preventing the fuel pump from turning on or the coil pack from not receiving a signal to start the spark. You'd see pulses on the lines from the coil pack connector to show it's trying to send a signal - so it may be a faulty cam sensor...unlikely because of one is bad the other would still send a signal to tell it something and so it will set a DTC due to one being bad - both can too - and no spark - but with a DTC that is due to cams not bad connections.

But I'm thinking it is just a harness seating issue with connections - the connectors may not be fully seated - too many things here that you not experiencing is telling me it's lost power to some or several systems so it won't start even though it will turn over.

 

[Julianj]

Check the Cylinder head - is the valve train works - are the cams turning?

If that is the case then things are good to a point.

The bent rods - you'd see the cams (or arms) lobbing or a snapping tingling sound from the valve springs - due to the damage it will transfer up into the valve train.

What I'm thinking here is you just may not have spark due to a broken wire in the harness or the coil pack is failed - refusing to spark. You'd also smell fuel when you crank because the raw fuel not being burned is passing thru the system and out the exhaust pipe.

If you don't have both, then something further up the creek is preventing the fuel pump from turning on or the coil pack from not receiving a signal to start the spark. You'd see pulses on the lines from the coil pack connector to show it's trying to send a signal - so it may be a faulty cam sensor...unlikely because of one is bad the other would still send a signal to tell it something and so it will set a DTC due to one being bad - both can too - and no spark - but with a DTC that is due to cams not bad connections.

But I'm thinking it is just a harness seating issue with connections - the connectors may not be fully seated - too many things here that you not experiencing is telling me it's lost power to some or several systems so it won't start even though it will turn over.

I was starting to think the same thing, I didn't mess with any electrical connectors though, when I first cranked it after getting it back together the last time it spuddered for a half a second and just keeps cranking and cranking with no fire at all. Like it just doesn't wanna try to start. I hear the fuel pump priming and I haven't checked spark yet. But I also didn't have to touch the coil packs to do the job either. That's why my brain keeps telling me that I messed the timing up or something. But my 2 gears line up pretty much spot on. So I'm not sure. I will be getting a scan tool and scanning for codes later today.

 

[Julianj]

So I stuck a screwdriver i spark plug cylinder hole #1 till it was all the way up cranking the crankshaft, and once it was at top dead center the 2 top cams were both at around 11:00 instead of my original 12:00 marks. So I think my crankshaft and my cams are out of time. Hopefully I didn't bend any valves trying to start it last time I got it together.

 

[Handy Andy]

OK! To know it sputtered gives me hope too!

As far as I can tell, the issue may have been from the advance in the cams, those bigger gears located to the front - were not completely empty when you started this project - the system uses those solenoids so if the system pressurizes the cams advance with oil - that changes the aspect of the systems advance - so you caught this early and knowing the advance timing of the cams and the piston aspect, you should be OK, else you would have heard loud clanging from the starter trying to kick it over - and in some instances the starter would "STOP" and smoke itself from the inability to move the crank from the jam of a valve advanced too far and it struck the piston - only under horsepower can the system truly bend a rod or break a valve to cause that condition.

Just reset the cam belt - pull the battery to reset the codes and try this again.