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Car wouldn't start and now the engine sounds like it's jammed

LizPettit

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Ford Fiesta Diesel 2007
#1
Originally, it wouldn't start and when we checked the battery, it looked like this was the problem as some of the battery cells looked warped and needed topping up. Bought a new battery and it started first time, I drove it to my mum's (5 miles), stopped the car, unpacked her shopping, restarted the car - all no problem - completely back to normal. Got home, and my partner suggested that he would drive the car around the block to make sure it was fine - wouldn't start at all - just made a noise as though the battery was almost flat and didn't have enough power to turn over the engine - this was literally less than 10 minutes after I got home and switched off the engine. Took battery off again and recharged it - put it back on, still didn't start and struggled to turn over the engine. We thought perhaps it was an electrical fault, tried to see whether there was a drain on the battery or a short-circuit somewhere. Checked all the fuses, all the relays - nothing seemed out of the ordinary. Partner therefore reckoned it was the starter motor and we bought a replacement. Spoke to my usual mechanic who said that if I could get the car to him, he would fit the new Starter Motor. Tried to bump start the car, nothing worked. Even got a friend to tow it up the road to give it a bit of a boost - nothing. This was during really freezing weather and, as a diesel, it's so much harder to start than a petrol car. As I couldn't get the car to my usual mechanic (he only works from his premises as he's a one-man band - not a mobile mechanic), my partner spent a horrible (still freezing) weekend under the car putting on the new starter motor. Unfortunately this didn't solve the problem. It now tries to start but the engine sounds like it immediately jams or something is blocking it. Almost like when you start the car and immediately stall it because you've accidentally left it in gear. Partner checked the cam belt and it is still intact and doesn't appear to have slipped. Running out of ideas now, but think something is seriously wrong with the engine and that the car is heading for the scrap yard. We're worried that trying to bump start it may have done more damage.
 
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Philadelphia
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PA
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2016 Fiesta SE
#2
I don't know the diesel Fiesta, but I do know old diesel Mercedes. One possible problem to look at is if the "glow" circuit is actually working. The engine needs a little assistance to get the chambers warm enough to support combustion, so there is a device in each cylinder, that physically warms up the prechamber and the diesel spray. If this isn't working, you won't get the car started until it gets hot outside.
Check all your fuses, check and clean all the battery connections.
Check your fuel lines; if there is a crack allowing air into the system, you may not get a steady stream of fuel.
Good luck! Diagnosing a non-starting diesel during the winter is really difficult, but no reason to scrap the car!
 

scotman

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#3
Liz, have you connected a generic scan tool and pulled up any pending mil? Or have you noticed a mil on cold starts prior to it becoming a pull toy?. I have to ask because you should have a code P0336 in pending mil for a situation where the crankshaft position sensor has begun to fail. If that sensor is not able to give the processor a cylinder signal that is ready to fire, the result is a no start condition. If you have disconnected the battery you might have cleared the mil.
You broke several rules of vehicle diagnostic behavior that have rather complicated the process of getting to the root cause of the “cranks, but no start” condition.
It would be helpful to know how many K have passed since the last service visit? If you have a service history record, has there been a timing belt replacement done in the last three years?
Is your Fiesta equipped with either a factory or aftermarket anti theft immobilizer? Have you recently had a dead battery battery after leaving the Fiesta parked and locked for more than three days?
It’s very difficult to make informed guesses on scant information.
 
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LizPettit

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Ford Fiesta Diesel 2007
Thread Starter #4
I don't know the diesel Fiesta, but I do know old diesel Mercedes. One possible problem to look at is if the "glow" circuit is actually working. The engine needs a little assistance to get the chambers warm enough to support combustion, so there is a device in each cylinder, that physically warms up the prechamber and the diesel spray. If this isn't working, you won't get the car started until it gets hot outside.
Check all your fuses, check and clean all the battery connections.
Check your fuel lines; if there is a crack allowing air into the system, you may not get a steady stream of fuel.
Good luck! Diagnosing a non-starting diesel during the winter is really difficult, but no reason to scrap the car!
Dear Phil - thanks for this. Partner is pretty sure it isn't the glow plugs or the injectors - mainly because the engine won't turn at all - it feels jammed. I'll show him your message on his return from work and see if he has done all the things you mention. We checked all the fuses and relays initially, and we don't appear to have any fuel leaks but no harm in looking at all these things again. Thanks again.
 
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LizPettit

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Ford Fiesta Diesel 2007
Thread Starter #5
Liz, have you connected a generic scan tool and pulled up any pending mil? Or have you noticed a mil on cold starts prior to it becoming a pull toy?. I have to ask because you should have a code P0336 in pending mil for a situation where the crankshaft position sensor has begun to fail. If that sensor is not able to give the processor a cylinder signal that is ready to fire, the result is a no start condition. If you have disconnected the battery you might have cleared the mil.
You broke several rules of vehicle diagnostic behavior that have rather complicated the process of getting to the root cause of the “cranks, but no start” condition.
It would be helpful to know how many K have passed since the last service visit? If you have a service history record, has there been a timing belt replacement done in the last three years?
Is your Fiesta equipped with either a factory or aftermarket anti theft immobilizer? Have you recently had a dead battery battery after leaving the Fiesta parked and locked for more than three days?
It’s very difficult to make informed guesses on scant information.
Dear Scotman

Thank you for taking the time to respond. My partner hasn't connected a generic scan tool because he thought he knew what it was (I see what you mean about breaking the rules of initial diagnosis). The problem first manifested itself when the car was stood for about a week over the Xmas holidays and wouldn't start at all - not even clicks - dead as a dodo. It was odd because once we changed the battery, it was completely back to normal and I made two quick trips in the car, after which it failed to start and it's been dead ever since - it sounded as though it was trying to start but really laboured. Now it won't even turn the engine over once - like it tries then hits a brick wall. Thank you for the tip about the crankshaft position sensor - I will show my partner when he gets home from work so that he can try that out as well as check things out with his generic scan tool.

Regarding your other question, the car was last serviced about 2 months and approx 1k miles ago but the timing belt hasn't been replaced for a long time - several years and about 12k miles ago. However, my partner checked the timing belt after putting on the new starter motor and it doesn't appear to have slipped and is still intact.

Thanks again for your swift response to my query and I hope the suggestions on this thread may yet provide a solution to the very large paperweight currently sitting on my driveway...
 
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LizPettit

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Thread Starter #6
Liz, have you connected a generic scan tool and pulled up any pending mil? Or have you noticed a mil on cold starts prior to it becoming a pull toy?. I have to ask because you should have a code P0336 in pending mil for a situation where the crankshaft position sensor has begun to fail. If that sensor is not able to give the processor a cylinder signal that is ready to fire, the result is a no start condition. If you have disconnected the battery you might have cleared the mil.
You broke several rules of vehicle diagnostic behavior that have rather complicated the process of getting to the root cause of the “cranks, but no start” condition.
It would be helpful to know how many K have passed since the last service visit? If you have a service history record, has there been a timing belt replacement done in the last three years?
Is your Fiesta equipped with either a factory or aftermarket anti theft immobilizer? Have you recently had a dead battery battery after leaving the Fiesta parked and locked for more than three days?
It’s very difficult to make informed guesses on scant information.
Also I forgot to mention, it doesn't have an alarm/immobiliser.
 

scotman

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#7
Okay. I would be having a hard look at the crankshaft position sensor. Any vehicle that has an interference design valve train, should never be bump started or pull started. When or if the timing belt breaks it could destroy the engine. You might have escaped disaster this time. But, you only need to lose a couple of cogs on the belt and then it’s over for the engine.
I also must say that the modern Fiesta doesn’t have a starter motor that is capable of extended cranking. More than 10 seconds of cranking without a five minute pause is inviting the creation of a burned up starter motor. Sadly, when they developed fuel injection, that was the impetus to make the starter motor much lighter and less able to withstand long cranking times.
 
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Handy Andy

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#8
Has the Head gasket been thought of?

Reason is the sitting over the week of Christmas, we in the US, got slammed with a pretty rough storm with a lot of snow and sudden drops in cold temperatures.

Hard on everything, from batteries to the oil in the crankcase...

So wondered if you have checked the antifreeze lately?

How does it look, clean clear - that's good, but cloudy or dark with what looks like oil or soot?

Since this is a Deisel - they don't take too kindly to sudden blend changes - so wondering if another condition that makes me think the head gasket and hydro lock, is the blend of Deisel you are using.

Have seen diesel motors fail from too much anti-gel being used.

IF a gasket failed, the coolant and diesel fuel will pretty much kill the ability of the oil to let the engine move, due to the mess it makes - it can get unfrozen but takes a trip to a machine shop or a good mechanic to free up the motor. It's also the reason I asked about the color the antifreeze, dirty antifreeze usually means a head gasket issue - it also gets into the oil and affects not just the color and consistency of the oil but displaces it too - adding more to the dipstick's indicator level than normal.

Worst case scenario is the engine froze due to a bad piston or broken connecting rod.
 
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#9
I would suggest trying to rotate the engine by hand to verify there is free movement. If the engine can be cranked by hand, you know mechanically it ok. The amount of power that makes it to the end of the starter cable could not be adequate to maintain cranking, especially with the higher compression of a diesel. Although the start line (battery) and finish line (starter motor) are new, everything in between needs to be scrutinized and verified it can provide the required current. The amount of power flowing through the wiring can very quickly heat up a weak section and cause high resistance. Even the smaller wiring can be affected such as the fuse box and harness.
Once the starter can be relied on, then move on to whats next.
 
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LizPettit

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Thread Starter #10
I would suggest trying to rotate the engine by hand to verify there is free movement. If the engine can be cranked by hand, you know mechanically it ok. The amount of power that makes it to the end of the starter cable could not be adequate to maintain cranking, especially with the higher compression of a diesel. Although the start line (battery) and finish line (starter motor) are new, everything in between needs to be scrutinized and verified it can provide the required current. The amount of power flowing through the wiring can very quickly heat up a weak section and cause high resistance. Even the smaller wiring can be affected such as the fuse box and harness.
Once the starter can be relied on, then move on to whats next.
Thank you for responding. Yes this is exactly what my partner is planning to do this weekend - to jack the car up and see if the engine can be manually rotated. If it can't then that'll, sadly, answer the question on whether it can actually be repaired or not.
 
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LizPettit

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Thread Starter #11
Has the Head gasket been thought of?

Reason is the sitting over the week of Christmas, we in the US, got slammed with a pretty rough storm with a lot of snow and sudden drops in cold temperatures.

Hard on everything, from batteries to the oil in the crankcase...

So wondered if you have checked the antifreeze lately?

How does it look, clean clear - that's good, but cloudy or dark with what looks like oil or soot?

Since this is a Deisel - they don't take too kindly to sudden blend changes - so wondering if another condition that makes me think the head gasket and hydro lock, is the blend of Deisel you are using.

Have seen diesel motors fail from too much anti-gel being used.

IF a gasket failed, the coolant and diesel fuel will pretty much kill the ability of the oil to let the engine move, due to the mess it makes - it can get unfrozen but takes a trip to a machine shop or a good mechanic to free up the motor. It's also the reason I asked about the color the antifreeze, dirty antifreeze usually means a head gasket issue - it also gets into the oil and affects not just the color and consistency of the oil but displaces it too - adding more to the dipstick's indicator level than normal.

Worst case scenario is the engine froze due to a bad piston or broken connecting rod.
The anti-freeze seems OK but we will have a closer look at all of these - we haven't checked the head gasket but there doesn't appear to be any leakage around it. It was unnaturally cold weather for this part of the country when the car started going wrong and it has warmed up considerably in the last few days, so this is giving me some hope that it may not be as catastrophic as it currently looks. Thank you for responding - I will show this to my partner and he can hopefully tick all these suggestions off one at a time and one may prove to be the answer. He has a long list of things to check this weekend and I'm very grateful to you and the others for taking the time to answer my query.
 

Handy Andy

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#12
He has a long list of things to check this weekend and I'm very grateful to you and the others for taking the time to answer my query.
Well, not to add more to that list, but if this has what I think it has, then there is an older power steering pump in the engine compartment.

In the US, we have electrical motor assist (or Electronic Power Assisted Steering - EPAS) but earlier models still used the older style pulley/mechanical steering pump.

Now if it had some water in it, the pump would "seize" or even make the belt jump off - so if that happened it might jamb (or jam) that belt to the other pulley or against the side of the engine cover where the harmonic balancer is - would make the engine very hard to turn. So to fix that - just thaw that water and sludge out the unit and get rid (like an oil change) of the older pump oil and it's contaminates - refill with fresh fluid, replace the belt and it should be ok.

There is also the potential for a seized alternator and it's bearing.

So if the engine won't turn - check the belt.
 
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LizPettit

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Thread Starter #14
It's a mild day (no longer freezing) and Partner just tried to manually turn the crank shaft bolt using a socket and extension bar - absolutely solid - will not turn - so looks as though the engine is truly buggered and I need a new car. Thanks again to everyone who responded and took the time to offer some suggestions, but it looks like it's game over at this point. :(
 
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LizPettit

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Thread Starter #15
After telling me it was all over (see above) he has now come back and told me that he IS going to check the auxiliary belt and steering pump and alternator as mentioned above by Handy Andy (thanks again) before throwing in the towel - he doesn't think it's this and isn't hopeful but has now decided to give it one last go before we give up totally
#OneTinyLastGlimmerOfHope...
 

econoboxrocks

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#17
You're all brilliant!! The alternator is completely seized, which explains all the other problems. Now I just need to order a new one and Bob's your uncle!
I love it when such a scary story turns out to be something not so scary. Let's hope that's all it was. :)
 
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LizPettit

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Thread Starter #18
I love it when such a scary story turns out to be something not so scary. Let's hope that's all it was. :)
Thank you everyone. Car is up and running after alternator replaced. The alternator was completely seized/would not budge, giving the false impression that it was a major problem with the engine. All 100% OK now and thanks again to all of you, best regards from Elizabeth in Cambridge, UK.
 


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