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5 speed troubles

Marnold5

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Magnolia
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TX
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United States
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2015 Fiesta
#1
My Fiesta POPS out of first gear on starting roll (as from a stop ) randomly.

Sometimes once a day, sometimes many times ( 6 or 7 today).

Attempts to repair have so far included replacing clutch and throw out bearing, flywheel, first gear and its synchronizer, bushings and the shift fork.

Still pops out!
Thoughts?
 

Handy Andy

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#2
How does the little box the shifter lever and counterweight (down at the transmission) look?

IF the box the shifter resides in has taken a whack it can affect how far the shifter can throw the fork into and hold the gear.

So that may mean you might need to map the shift pattern on a flat surface and just chock the wheels no brakes so the wheels can move to remove and take up slack so the shift pattern can be seen directly by you looking over the shifter console and observing the pattern and feeling the detent to the shift engagement.

Edit:
Done with the engine off and clutch left engaged - just shifting thru the gears while parked.

Why do this?

Because the "Map" you see on the shift knob is one aspect, but if the cables that move the Gears in and out (Up and Down) and the Forks (Left and Right) to pick the gear off the shaft to push onto the splines and make it engage - if that shift pattern is off - the gimbals themselves that are at the ends of the cables are telling you this by making the pattern seem hard to arrive to while you drive.

As Cables age and get used - their lengths and tensile strengths change too.

You might feel like the shifter is doing more of this...

1711592329571.png

Since 1st gear doesn't seen to want to line up - that gear is the lowest gear and also contain a "lockout" to prevent people from going into first gear when downshifting from above-speed gearing at 7MPH or greater - this prevents over-revving the engine and the synchronizers from getting damaged.

So if the lockout is damaged, that may mean a trip to the service department - else you might be able to regain control of 1st gear if you research the gearbox and the cover that holds the shifter assembly.



1711591249588.png
The two cables terminate in Gimbals - those teardrop shape ends, they pivot on the pins of the shift lever controllers that transfer the motion into an X and Y - into a throw that moves the gears in and out (top gimbal) of your forward and back motion while the other can control the gear pair set using the lower gimbal, that one moves side to side and controls 1-2 and 3-4 and 5-R

So if the gearbox case that houses those gimbals is bent, struck by debris or is rusting away - this can make the shift pattern change and even make it impossible to shift into and out of specific gears - so if you're having trouble with #1 - remember that it uses a lockout and if the clutch is not fully releasing the power from the motor - you may not be able to shift down into the gear because the shaft it's on is still spinning even though you are not moving.

So this might mean you'll need to have someone trained in transmissions inspect the operation of the clutch and check and listen for the gear "crunch" or whine the clashing mesh makes as it tries to engage the various gears while the engine runs.

You can also check with the front of the car up off the ground and with the engine running to help notice the shift issues and hear them. Start by chocking the rear wheels and jack up the front of the car (prefer on both font wheels up)

  • Push the clutch in as if you are driving normally to see how hard it is to shift into 1st while the tires are off the floor
  • - if it can be done and you see the wheels turn, then you have an engagement problem with the clutch not releasing all the way
  • - if you can't get into 1st gear easily with the Clutch in and the engine running and the wheels turn or not the SYNCHRONIZER may be the problem
    • - see about pushing the shift lever, without the clutch in, into 1st to see if the wheels spin up to help the mesh engage at a low level speed - this tests the syncronizer by seeing if the mesh of the gear to the splines to engage the gear are not damaged.
    • If you can but / and you hear a "Grind or clank" - then you have more of a shifter and gear problem inside the transmission. The synchronizer or the gear to spline may be damaged - like a tooth by tooth condition.
  • You can do this also to check the quality and condition of the synchronizers for the forward gears using this method - any grind shows wear and damages that require service or replaced with a rebuilt tranny.
 
Last edited:

scotman

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#3
I would be looking for gear oil that is leaking past the axle seals where the cv axles go into the transmission case. Are you certain that it is holding gear oil? Or that it was refilled with the proper spec synthetic gear oil?
 
OP
M

Marnold5

New Member
Messages
4
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City
Magnolia
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TX
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United States
What I Drive
2015 Fiesta
Thread Starter #4
How does the little box the shifter lever and counterweight (down at the transmission) look?

IF the box the shifter resides in has taken a whack it can affect how far the shifter can throw the fork into and hold the gear.

So that may mean you might need to map the shift pattern on a flat surface and just chock the wheels no brakes so the wheels can move to remove and take up slack so the shift pattern can be seen directly by you looking over the shifter console and observing the pattern and feeling the detent to the shift engagement.

Edit:
Done with the engine off and clutch left engaged - just shifting thru the gears while parked.

Why do this?

Because the "Map" you see on the shift knob is one aspect, but if the cables that move the Gears in and out (Up and Down) and the Forks (Left and Right) to pick the gear off the shaft to push onto the splines and make it engage - if that shift pattern is off - the gimbals themselves that are at the ends of the cables are telling you this by making the pattern seem hard to arrive to while you drive.

As Cables age and get used - their lengths and tensile strengths change too.

You might feel like the shifter is doing more of this...


Since 1st gear doesn't seen to want to line up - that gear is the lowest gear and also contain a "lockout" to prevent people from going into first gear when downshifting from above-speed gearing at 7MPH or greater - this prevents over-revving the engine and the synchronizers from getting damaged.

So if the lockout is damaged, that may mean a trip to the service department - else you might be able to regain control of 1st gear if you research the gearbox and the cover that holds the shifter assembly.



The two cables terminate in Gimbals - those teardrop shape ends, they pivot on the pins of the shift lever controllers that transfer the motion into an X and Y - into a throw that moves the gears in and out (top gimbal) of your forward and back motion while the other can control the gear pair set using the lower gimbal, that one moves side to side and controls 1-2 and 3-4 and 5-R

So if the gearbox case that houses those gimbals is bent, struck by debris or is rusting away - this can make the shift pattern change and even make it impossible to shift into and out of specific gears - so if you're having trouble with #1 - remember that it uses a lockout and if the clutch is not fully releasing the power from the motor - you may not be able to shift down into the gear because the shaft it's on is still spinning even though you are not moving.

So this might mean you'll need to have someone trained in transmissions inspect the operation of the clutch and check and listen for the gear "crunch" or whine the clashing mesh makes as it tries to engage the various gears while the engine runs.

You can also check with the front of the car up off the ground and with the engine running to help notice the shift issues and hear them. Start by chocking the rear wheels and jack up the front of the car (prefer on both font wheels up)

  • Push the clutch in as if you are driving normally to see how hard it is to shift into 1st while the tires are off the floor
  • - if it can be done and you see the wheels turn, then you have an engagement problem with the clutch not releasing all the way
  • - if you can't get into 1st gear easily with the Clutch in and the engine running and the wheels turn or not the SYNCHRONIZER may be the problem
    • - see about pushing the shift lever, without the clutch in, into 1st to see if the wheels spin up to help the mesh engage at a low level speed - this tests the syncronizer by seeing if the mesh of the gear to the splines to engage the gear are not damaged.
    • If you can but / and you hear a "Grind or clank" - then you have more of a shifter and gear problem inside the transmission. The synchronizer or the gear to spline may be damaged - like a tooth by tooth condition.
  • You can do this also to check the quality and condition of the synchronizers for the forward gears using this method - any grind shows wear and damages that require service or replaced with a rebuilt tranny.
I’ll be looking into all of these things. Thank you!
 
OP
M

Marnold5

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Messages
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City
Magnolia
State
TX
Country
United States
What I Drive
2015 Fiesta
Thread Starter #5
I would be looking for gear oil that is leaking past the axle seals where the cv axles go into the transmission case. Are you certain that it is holding gear oil? Or that it was refilled with the proper spec synthetic gear oil?
Pretty sure there’s no leak, but I’ll get under and check. Thank you!
 


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