2016 Titanium HB 1.6L 111k miles HELP

Daveb40258 · Mar 30, 2024

I feel like my first post may have been too long. Sorry about that. So here's the short n sweet:
Still showing P0365 CMP circuit B bank 1 P0369 CMP circuit B bank 1 intermittent.
Pending codes but never trip CEL:
P0300 Random multiple cylinder misfire
P0301 misfire cylinder 1
P0304 misfire cylinder 4
Symptoms:
Hard to start.
Runs good cold but exhaust smells rich
At operating temp tough idle, tapping or chattering noise between shifts, stop when you back down the acceleration. Or nearly nonexistent using power shift or the A/C.
Really poor acceleration sounds like exhaust or possibly an emissions issue.

Performed all required maintenance up to 100k and oil change 3 days ago. Inspected fuses, ground points, spark plug gap, replaced CMP sensors (bank 1 and 2)
**Oil already looks like it hasn't been changed it decades**
I can't stress enough how important my car is especially with the economy. I can hardly get to work let alone look for additional work, and after 30 years and almost paid off might lose our home and the equity in it.
PLEASE, ANY HELP WOULD BE GREAT.
I have mechanic skills so nothing aside from engine tear down I can handle. Thank you so much.

econoboxrocks · Apr 9, 2024

Daveb40258 said:

UPDATE

Hello Y'all,
I thought I'd share this in case it helps anyone out there. Took her to the shop last Thursday:

After a test drive and scanning, they got the P0365 and P0369 and misfire codes. Taking a shoot in the dark they called and asked if it was ok to put a coil pack in the vehicle
since that was the only item I did not do in the 100K mile maintenance I agreed. That took care of the misfires. At about that time, I decided to send back the 2 CMP sensors; While setting up the return, I noticed something in the description I missed: "Cam Position sensor 2016 Ford Fiesta 11-14". After they called and said it ran much better but those codes were still there, I knew I had the wrong sensor installed.
I put the old sensor back in and it ran well for a few minutes, but then the engine light came back on, and all the symptoms that went along with a bad sensor returned. I ordered the right Bosch part this time, just waiting for it to arrive.

Take it back. The job isn't done if the car isn't drivable. Wrong sensor, or else the computers are reading it wrong.

scotman · Apr 9, 2024

Camshaft position sensors can be a very troublesome component from the aftermarket. I dont understand why they would be. They are basically a magnetic switch. I replaced the cps in my 2011with a house brand cps just before the china virus shutdown from an Autozone. It was not doing the job. Got a Motorcraft part, problem went away.

Daveb40258 · Apr 15, 2024

UPDATE 04-15-2024
While checking the right front suspension I noticed the entire left side under the car was soaked in oil. The leak was coming from the Air Filter Housing. I opened it up and the inside was saturated in oil. like a qt low leaked out of it. Then it finally hit me. -14.87 Longtermfueltrim (very lean), the rough idle, the piss poor acceleration, Multiple Miss Fires, CMP sensor codes, a 1600 deg F Cat temp, and now a qt of oil blowby? PCV VALVE is stuck open. It has to be as this is the ONLY thing that could cause this crap without multiple codes.

Can someone tell me where I can find the PCV? I can not find it. I searched online and it looks like there can be 5 different ones all of which are in multiple areas of the engine some have tubes attached.
All I can say, if this doesn't fix the problem I'm cutting my losses and trading her in. Too bad too I love this car.

Handy Andy · Apr 15, 2024

The PCV valve is at the engine block - where the intake meets the cylinder head - locate that gap between Cylinders 2 and 3 - then you find the IMAPT (Intake Manifold Air Pressure and Temperature sensor) right next to it is the Hose that the PCV valve uses to suck in air from the crankcase - thru the PCV valve - located on the other end of that hose - the PCV valve itself can be pulled out of its grommet and replaced as needed.

To help.
Read this thread...
https://www.fordfiesta.org/threads/fresh-engine-oil-in-air-intake.9295/post-25975

Remember that only needs 4 quarts of oil no more to the 1.6L Sigma motor - so overfilling will give results like this.

Daveb40258 · Apr 15, 2024

Thanks Andy.
That's a great thread. This all happened after I was doing a 0 to 60 time o the car I guess revving it up must have really messed things up. I hope the PCV valve is all I need .

Handy Andy · Apr 16, 2024

Good luck with this, hopefully it will be some simple cleanup of the oil splash and you should be able to use some carb cleaner to help the throttle plate.

Make sure that cleaner is system safe, says so, on the can.

To help remove or dry out the oil, you can remove the snorkel and give the throttle plate a few squirts at a time to help "dry out" the oil residue and the rest of the oil itself - still left in the inside of the intake - will slowly work it's way thru the intake back thru the cylinder head and using the vacuum present in the manifold - get pulled in and get reburned - it will happen in small amounts and might cause an occasional jitter in idle but most of the oil spray coating just follows the direction of the wind in the intake and heads back to the cylinder head.

The PCV valve does this, as it takes the combustion by-products of the engine and that oil spray as a natural process to recirculate and reburn fumes - so the oil residue is a normal thing.

IF you're inclined you can remove the throttle body and the intake gasket and clean them up with some simple towels to sop up the old oil and inspect the lining of the intake.

Don't try to use the carb cleaner directly on the gaskets if you can avoid it - it can remove the chemicals used to keep it pliable and able to seat to two different surfaces - metal of the body and the plastic on the intake side.

But you can use it to clean the surfaces so you can reuse the gasket - Else you'll have to get a replacement - although not a big deal - it may need to be done anyway due to the age of the seal as it is on the system.

Daveb40258 · Apr 18, 2024

Hey Andy,

Thanks for forwarding that post to me I must have read it 20 times. I did a lot of the repairs and troubleshooting mentioned in the post. I'll post pictures of the hideous conditions and horrifying problems I found and tried to correct: Keep in mind, that I performed an oil change just 4 weeks ago, and this all started 2 weeks after.

*****WARNING***** THESE PICTURES ARE FOR MATURE AUDIENCES, VIEWER DISCRETION IS ADVISED!!

Air Filter box:

My immediate reaction was "Oh crap this can not be good" I cleaned that box back to like new and got all that oil cleaned up, and I pressure washed the remaining quart of oil from beneath the driver's side.
I removed the hose attached to the valve cover, why Ford has to come up with the worst ideas for hose clips and clamps baffle my mind. I Had to order a new tool again! I blew out the hose made sure there were no restrictions and tested for air coming from that hose. It was good. I popped in a new air filter and dried up that foam to reuse until the foam came in I ordered.

Spark Plugs:

These are NGK Ruthenium Plugs installed only 13,000 miles ago and Cylinders 1 and 3 (the coded misfires) I didn't need any force to unscrew them I thought I had the ratchet set wrong and unscrewed them by hand. If you see anything abnormal let me know here is what I found.
First I sprayed them with WD40 used a dremel with a soft bristle wheel and cleaned them all up. Every one of them was gapped wrong fixed that, then reinstalled them tight. (ordered a freaking torque wrench finally also) lol.I Ordered some AutoLite 5363xp Iridium / Platinum plugs to replace those.

Spark Plug seats:

I put some WD40 on a shop towel wrapped around a 5/16 socket and cleaned those seats.

Exhaust system:

Is it just me or does the exhaust look like it's been subject to flamethrower testing? According to the real-time tests, the Cat is reaching 1667 degrees F running at 70 MPH. That sounds high to me.
while doing all this I was getting burned out trying to troubleshoot this issue for 2 weeks now I replaced the Sway Bar linkage on both sides. I needed to finish 1 thing before I drove her into the Ohio River.

PCV Valve:

Well, I think I found it and I must know how in the heck do you get this out.

Additional troubleshooting:
I checked and rechecked every fuse on the car.
I found no continuity from the battery ground to the body and cleaned that to fix an obvious design flaw.
I tested every sensor and solenid I could and every one that reported to the ECU had 4.9 volts I do not have the equipment to actuate any sensors but the VVT solenoids actuated when tested.
I did not test the O2 sensors but I suspect a bad CAT so I'll replace those sensors regardless.

For some reason, maybe because of the poor ground, I have tried many times to reset the ECU to no avail.
I pulled the MAP and it looks like it needs some love and I have not cleaned the TB yet

Results:

The horrifying noise coming from the front area of the engine is gone.
I have more power at acceleration from a standstill Misfires are gone.
The steering is tighter and the thumping noise when I go over a bump is gone.
The exhaust still smells rich to me.
still getting the p0365 and p0369 Circut B Sensor 1 Cam position sensor and Cam Position sensor Intermittent
still runs rough below 1000RPM.

The only things I have not touched are from the exhaust back.

I don't know if a ECU reset will make that much difference but mine wont reset anyway so ....

Anyway thanks for the reply

scotman · Apr 18, 2024

The oil sure can migrate through the PCV system on these engines! I use CRC chemicals throttle body and upper intake cleaner on my Fiesta with no problems for over ten years.
That little foam breather element in the airbox is a once a year replacement item. I think that it's rather restrictive part of the PCV system.

scotman · Apr 18, 2024

CRC chemicals company even offers a combo kit with enough for one cleaning session! Aptly named the "performance twin pack"!
Im also fond of the intake valve and turbo cleaner spray for the 1.6 turbo in the ST. No tuneup or filter element maintenance routine is complete without using these products.

Daveb40258 · Apr 18, 2024

Thanks for that info will get that today.

Daveb40258 · Apr 18, 2024

@Handy Andy on my way to work I performed a real time OBD2: I'm not well versed on these readings if anything stands out please let me
Know.
Highway:

IDLE:

+T means added throttle

Handy Andy · Apr 19, 2024

In your own words sir, is it working?
[cheerleader]

Daveb40258 · Apr 19, 2024

Andy
I am absolutely stumped. Tightening the loose spark plugs stopped the horrible noise that sounded like a tensioner, stopped the misfires. Re gapping has given me some power back it no longer loses speed on inclines.
I cleaned the air filter box, replaced filter and foam. Cleaned MAP sensor and TB butterfly. The excessive oil has stopped
Last oil change I mistakenly bought 5 w 30 thinking as long as the first number was right no worries. I had already drained the oil. So after I cleaned everything up I also replaced the oil with the MC synthetic blend 5 w 20 also took the POS fram oil filter off and installed the MC 910s.
Replaced the Evap Purge Valve and I stead of a flat line 0 result the valve is fluctuating.
The long term fuel trim is no longer stuck at a constant -14.87. it also fluctuates. The throttle body also seems responsive in the tests.
The O2 sensors that are reported 2 on bank 1 voltage and heat mA are fluctuating.
Still hesitates after warm up,and under 1000rpm runs rough and takes forever to get from 0 to

to 60 sometimes after I let up on the accelerator it seems to get a surge of power.
The cat is no longer 1600⁰ F it's only 1300⁰ F 🤔
I NEED TO ADD I PUT AN LED LIGHT STRIP ON THE FRONT EDGE OF THE HOOD AND WIRED IT DIRECTLY TO FUSE 23 WHICH CONTROLS VVTs, Evap, and another component that I can not remember. Everyone is telling me that by doing that I may have shorted the ECU or robbed power to those components. The latter makes no sense because a piggy back on the fuse would also rob power. And all the sensors are talking back n forth to the ECU.
I ORDERED new iridium plugs, and if I can get it out clean the PCV .
Other than all this, I do not know what I could have missed except maybe a timing belt. But I refuse to accept that. There is too much going on here.
Oh. Still getting P0365 and P0369 on the bank 1 CMP.

Handy Andy · Apr 20, 2024

Ok, good to know that signs of life are returning - trying to understand what you're up against.

Hearing that the Oil change and the issues around that seems to be a lot of what this condition is - so it helps to clear this confusion up quite a bit.

Now the gauges seem awkward, don't know if the info can be considered valid or not, but we do see rises and falls so the system is learning trim.

Have you done some investigating of the Intake and Exhaust Cam advance solenoids?

CORRECT! (Yes)

You mention the LED, so they can cause problems if installed in SERIES or in-line with the solenoid wire, but if installed across (parallel) where one wire to one pin the other wire to the other pin - it should not be a problems for the 12V LED uses a dropping resistor to limit current so the internal LED diode doesn't blow from all the voltage. They work on 12V so if the LED light itself is going - and it's two wires are in the connector one to one and one to the other pin-outs (parallel) the LED should not draw excessive power unless they have a load resistor installed across their leads like some headlight systems require to keep from hyper-flashing. The dropping resistor that LED replacement system uses to prevent that hyper-flash would take too much current so the solenoids would not be able to work. So be sure they don't have those load resistors - not needed on these solenoids they engage using 12V and stay Up (engaged) - so this if done correctly - can make quite a light show to help provide some intuitive instruction on how the motors is working.

So others following this would know...
It is possible that the LED can glow using the power in the wire if installed in series with a wire for the Solenoid is a CURRENT-powered device that uses VOLTAGE to push that current thru to power the coil (a low ohmic resistive value wound wire) - so it's impedance appears low to voltage, but high to current (a power consumer) so LED would win-out in the power game for it will consume the least power and the dropping resistor for it also reduces or restricts this power so the Solenoid would not be able to operate but can pass enough of the voltage thru to power the LED.

(You seem to know this but others following this thread might not) These two advance solenoids work to change the valve timing so it might be why the engine seems sluggish, especially if one solenoid is stuck in a position - but to determine that requires a disassembly and that might cause more issues than it's worth in keeping everything sealed up and not leaving oil under the engine from where it sat, until you have more time to have a mechanic to help you inspect these solenoids and make sure the oil channels are clear and not plugged.

To help with this, if the system feels that one solenoid is not properly advancing - the diagnostic the PCM runs on it to find out, and may make the engine seem to run jittery and at times seems to want to die, this may the condition it's currently in, it's trying to figure out if the timing is off, and can it correct the condition itself or is there a different condition underlying this timing problem so it keeps this is limp in mode until it can determine a fault and set the MIL (Malfunction Indicator Light - Check Engine light) .

So if the system is still NOT READY in several areas of the I/M monitors, it may be prudent to see if the oil might have done other damage you've still have to discover - including the catalytic converter being plugged or restricted due to the oil blow-by plugging up channels in the media it has inside. IT can also affect the O2 sensors but they seem to be recovering - cannot say that these O2 sensors might need to be replaced anyways, they might be able to recover once the system can fire the cylinders hot enough to burn off the ash and soot from the sensors and restore some normal operation.

Daveb40258 · Apr 22, 2024

Handy Andy said:

Andy I guess I was waiting for this. I put the new plugs in her and it seemed like all the progress made this far was gone. She went back to no power, any size incline was a struggle ect...
Almost didn't make it home last night. It was almost like the trans failed. Gave it gas and took forever just to turn the wheels. Then my OBDII told me "fault code found P0111 IAT sensor outside normal range". Managed to get her home and now she just will not start. I checked the a/f again and there was oil blowby. The last week there was no issue with blowby. So I checked the plugs. Why do they tell you they are pre-gapped when clearly they are not. Re gapped the plugs , and tried to restart until the battery died. Left it on a slow charge with the ground wire disconnected so nothing uses current while charging. Oh also STILL GETTING P0365 AND P0369 CODES???
I have a couple questions: 1) why are some mechanics saying the 2016 1.6L Sigma has a MAF when clearly it only has a MAP 2) They also say the IAT is attached to the TB. There is not one there.
I still haven't been able to remove the PCV or the hose. Idk why it's being so difficult.
I'm thinking of cutting the cat completely off and taking it to the muffler shop and saying it was stolen so they will put a pipe in its place. But then there is the O2 Bank1 sensor2. If there is no cat how is that going to work? There are no emissions testing here, and a lot of stolen cats .
Regarding the LED. I wired the power to the fuse and ground to battery. (Fuse 25 see pic)
Regarding the VVT solenoids. I removed them and checked continuity, voltage to and from, there seems to be voltage from the ECU 4.9, and I was able to activate each one.
Also, I've been hearing that when the ECU / PCM is reset, ppl lose their radio stations ECT. The only thing that happens when I reset is all the milage info is set to zero (except the od) and the radio just goes to AM I still have my presets and the Sync 3 update. Is this normal?
UPDATE AS OF 10AM TODAY: AFTER CHARGING THE BATTERY WHEN I WENT TO START HER UP SHE WAS CLEARLY TRYING TO READ STUFF SHE MADE ALL KINDS OF NOISE BEFORE I GOT DASH LIGHTS. It never did that before.
I have been able to solve many problems over the years, I have never in my life had such bull crap. Too much emissions crap on cars today.
Today I'm going to pick up a 1995 BMW 525i with 130k miles on it for $2000. The only thing wrong with it is the clear coat on the hood. But if I can't get her started this morning then I'll have to take an Uber, and that's gonna be crazy expensive.
I appreciate all the help, thank you for taking the time to reply.

Daveb40258 · Saturday at 8:40 PM

scotman said:

Here is an interesting question:
Considering Bank1 is exhaust and Bank 2 is intake And the code is P0365 And P0369 (CMP sensor Circuit B Bank 1 and CMP Sensor Intermittent Circut B Bank 1)
We know where Bank 1 is correct? (the one on the valve cover closest to the firewall). The Circuit "B" implies there is a Circuit "A".
If true do Circuits go from the ECU forward or the Front of the engine to the back? Depending on this answer CIrcuit "A" could then be the CMP Sensor and Circuit "B" will be the VVT (Variable Valve Timing) (oil control) Sensor on Bank 1. If it refers from the front to the back of the .engine then Circuit "B" is The CMP Sensor Bank 1.
Don't laugh it is a legit question. Ford has all but destroyed, No, It has destroyed its reputation with sedans. That is why SUV's Trucks, and .....Oh ya, The Mustang are all you're gonna get.

The Perfect Example:

All of the 2016 1.6L Sigma Engines in a Titanium HB should be the same correct? If it wasn't it would be like Sigma A, B, C, etc.
Now do you think they all have the same sensors? You would think yes, right? To narrow it down they should ALL have a Mass Air Flow Sensor. (MAF) How about an Intake Air Temp. sensor? (IAT) CODE 0111 Intake Air Sensor reporting to ECU air temp out of range. Then she never started after that
Go ahead and search Google they will all tell you it does.
This car has neither. This car has a Manifold Air Pressure Sensor (MAP) but here is the good part. This MAP sensor doubles as an IAT sensor. Now to wrap all this up Ford decided this new sensor they created would be called a MIF Sensor. I'm sorry I can't even guess what the acronym means.

But yes my next one is a Motorcraft.

Daveb40258 · Saturday at 9:12 PM

Handy Andy said:

Hey Andy or anybody for that matter:

Question:

All of the 2016 1.6L Sigma Engines in a Titanium HB should be the same correct? If it wasn't it would be like Sigma A, B, C, etc.
Now, do you think they all have the same sensors? You would think yes, right? To narrow it down, they should ALL have a Mass Air Flow Sensor. (MAF) How about an Intake Air Temp. sensor? (IAT) CODE P0111 Intake Air Sensor reporting to ECU air temp out of range. Then she never started after that
Go ahead and search Google they will all tell you it does.
This car has neither. This car has a Manifold Air Pressure Sensor (MAP) but here is the good part. This MAP sensor doubles as an IAT sensor. To wrap all this up Ford decided this new sensor they created would be called a MIF Sensor. I'm sorry I can't even guess what the acronym means.

Now I am going back to my original assumption since it is the only one that makes sense:
Like an idiot, I wired an aftermarket device directly to a fuse. But first I need to:
Replace the battery. (Whatever shorted out when that mirror was torn off must have done something).
Assuming the LED screwed with all of bank 1 on the fuse that happens to supply the CMP sensor, The VVT solenoids 1 and 2, and the Evap purge valve. I will replace all those plus both O2 sensors, new PLATINUM plugs, a new air filter, change the oil (again), and finally the Trans fluid. Oh, and the MAP/IAT/WTFEver sensor.
Pray The cat isn't clogged and she starts.
No more testing, no more OBDII reports

If this does not work, I will take a big loss on this car and drive around in my newly acquired 1995 BMW 525i with 161,000 miles. Perfect interior everything works, tinted windows, no suspension issues, new brakes, new tires, and oil change. I need to tune it up and remove the oxidation on the paint.
Even with a 6-cylinder and GMC 4-speed trans, there is so much room to work; and maybe 3 emissions sensors if that on the engine. Not to mention this is my first luxury-sport vehicle and it is a dream to drive. The price paid of $2000 was just what I could afford and my next-door neighbor buys and fixes up these early model BMWs and Mercedes and turns around and sells them for good money. he said he probably has any part if needed.

Handy Andy · 2024-04-28T09:56:45-0500

Hmm...No, not laughing here...

Would feel better if we could narrow down the culprit and fix that then gather together to breathe a sigh of relief and laugh about what we can do if we overcome this...

When it comes to the "J" motor (on the VIN) then those sensors MOST (emphasized) would be the same CKP, CMP, VTS (Valve Timing Solenoid) are all the same.

But one thing I have not heard from you about is the condition of the Radiator - the fluid - is it mixing with the oil?

Seems you may have a blown engine gasket - possibly the main head to cylinder one - else you have a cracked cylinder head - but I cannot explain using those symptoms unless we have radiator coolant mixing with the oil causing this overflow condition

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2016 Titanium HB 1.6L 111k miles HELP

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