Hi there, I’m Toaduncommon

[Toaduncommon]

I need some help!! When I try to start my car, the starter stays engaged and won’t let go! I’ve replaced the starter switch and the ignition switch housing. Does anybody have a clue what might be going on???

 

[scotman]

Do you have an aftermarket remote start setup installed on your Fiesta? It might even have its own control fob with a ford oval on it.

 

[Toaduncommon]

No goodies just a key turner.

 

[Toaduncommon]

I’ve ordered a starter for it !

 

[Handy Andy]

I’ve ordered a starter for it !

That may be all it is. A sticking solenoid.

However, you own a 2011, so the key itself is not the problem, the tumbler and the construction is - or might be.

Didn't know if you ever remember the days in summer where when you jump in your car, the dash was hot, yes, but you came to the vehicle from a mall, store or other air-conditioned place? First thing you do is start the car and turn on the AC roll windows down or at least turn on the fan - then onto the business of getting the Ice Cream home before it melts.

Ok, you're pants pocket and the keys in them doesn't get as hot as that dash in the time you spent loading your car with groceries, so ever remember how "hot" the key was when you took it out of the ignition when you got done with that trip?

IF you do, then the problem may be from a resistive connection that forms as the contacts age in the connector to the keyswitch in the ignition tumbler. A level of power flows thru it even though more of the current flows (or is supposed to flow) thru the relays back at the engine compartment. Some of the relays only handle part of the load, the key still handles much of the dash stuff - so it does pump a bit of current thru it. So the resistor forms from age, not so much as a factor of corrosion, but as a factor of use, the wiping action and the level of contaminates in the tumbler - getting onto the switch and the level of wiping action that scrapes across the contacts - and piles up at the extreme ends of the wipe action - usually at START and OFF - so that pile of grease, plating from the contacts and even the polycarbonate of the rotor the switch contact is, - also winds up in those same spots, that is the resistive element I'm talking about.

The problem gets worse with heat - it changes the resistive value as a factor of temperature.

Representation to show connector to keyswitch as a factor of assembly
Does not represent your vehicles' ignition exactly
​

• In the above graphic, I only want to show you how you'd see the ignition key working a set of contacts that electrically function as current carrying load switch.
• Battery CONSTANT is applied to the switch as a "Mains" while the rotor then selects the ACC, Ignition, and START as secondary distribution
  • Within this is each contact is then supplied by MAINS to handle it's own load and power routes from that section of the switch thru a contact or as a set of BUSS contacts to distribute their power to various systems.
  • When the contacts see a heavy load, that power still routes thru their set of contacts as a demand placed upon it from the MAINS (BATT constant) but as with any switch, even relays,
    • their points of contact are having to carry that load
    • - have a level of resistance that is a factor of construction
    • - if the contact surface is small, like a point contact, the load and power LOSS is dissipated by the resistance the contact is, turn to HEAT that needs to be dissipated, that if not large enough to release to the air or frame cross members used to hold the steering wheel, instead it builds up inside the tumbler and transfers the heat to the key inside.

So if you remember the days of when Keyfobs and your house keys shared the same dongle and lanyard, then you also remember those times several attorneys decided to sue on behalf of their clients - against Automakers from making the "Steering wheel Lockup and Lockout" a factor in collisions - being that if the weight of all that crap on the lanyard was enough - it can force the key to turn to the OFF condition - locking up the steering wheel preventing it from turning and shut off the engine and turn off the Air bags - as the user simply watched helplessly as the object be it a tree or other vehicle - loomed larger and larger in their view of the windshield - until impact - and since Air bags need power to deploy - well, that help never came...

So this may need a little more TLC in the Relay and fuse block department - just pull and reseat the relays and fuses - checking for and removing oxides and powder coat that oxides' create and reseat the parts back into their slots as a means to apply that wiping action to restore former connection values before the oxides' took them away.

So if your key gets hot during times you need to run the accessories the most, this may be the time to look into servicing or inspecting the fuses and Relays to make sure they are doing their job.

 

[Toaduncommon]

That’s all good but the switch is about 4” away from where the key slides in. I did replace the starter and all of the things in the under hood fuse block that pertain to the starting circuit.

 

[Handy Andy]

Ok...

Here's the rub, when the starter engages, it doesn't use your key or even the button, this is all bypassed by the PCM - it starts the car.

Meaning, as long as it is in PARK, or the Clutch is to the floor, even if you only want to bump the starter, the SYSTEM grounds the circuit to engage the starter relay and operate the starter solenoid when you turn the key - it will not stop until one of several conditions are met - the engine is calculated (determined thru sensors the PCM uses) as being running or you take the system out of a "Safe" condition (out of Park.Neutral or Clutch off the floor) or it will crank for up to 30 seconds - which seems like an eternity considering all the noise.

So you have to locate the sensors that are not talking to the PCM - CKP (Crank position sensor is not one of them, it stops the turning over if PCM can't get signal)

So this may be more of a wiring issue caused by corrosion or an incorrectly installed part - or something is not seated in the harness.

 

[Toaduncommon]

Ok...

Here's the rub, when the starter engages, it doesn't use your key or even the button, this is all bypassed by the PCM - it starts the car.

Meaning, as long as it is in PARK, or the Clutch is to the floor, even if you only want to bump the starter, the SYSTEM grounds the circuit to engage the starter relay and operate the starter solenoid when you turn the key - it will not stop until one of several conditions are met - the engine is calculated (determined thru sensors the PCM uses) as being running or you take the system out of a "Safe" condition (out of Park.Neutral or Clutch off the floor) or it will crank for up to 30 seconds - which seems like an eternity considering all the noise.

So you have to locate the sensors that are not talking to the PCM - CKP (Crank position sensor is not one of them, it stops the turning over if PCM can't get signal)

So this may be more of a wiring issue caused by corrosion or an incorrectly installed part - or something is not seated in the harness.

So where would you look, what would you look at/for ?

 

[Handy Andy]

To circle back, what changes have you made to create this?

Try to undo it. Or what was done to it - can you describe?

Best to look at your dash - when you first turn to key to on (the ignition) - all the lights light up on the dash, then some stay on.

IF you pulled a sensor - that switch it's connected to would not light on the dash, but may set a pending DTC because of an initial circuit test is checking for that sensor to exist - you'll have to run the OBD-II Scanner and see if a pending DTC does show up - BEFORE you turn the key all the way to Start.

IF no code, then you'll have to compare the known reference, your owners manual; - to the symbols on the dash and note any that are missing or not on to even know which one of these lights and the identifying symbol, can tell you where to check.

Then check the I/M monitors to see which ones are NOT READY, then that too may provide a clue.

Otherwise you'll nave to rethink the Fuses, Relays and the wiring in the ignition and see if someone's tampered with it.

 

[Toaduncommon]

Good morning ! I did replace the directional bulbs with different non rapid flash led bulbs, but I can’t imagine that would have anything to do with starting ? The problem with the old directional bulbs was after working for about a year , suddenly the white bulb on the right didn’t work then it started “rapid flashing”. That’s why I replaced them,, ok ?

 

[Handy Andy]

Then that means there may be al electrical issue regarding grounds for part of your system.

Yes, this does change things. Each sensor has a input output and some type of reference to know the difference between on and off.

So when one bulb goes bad, you replaced it, but before you did that - it "looked burnt out" so you had to get at it - but what did you move to get at the bulb?

That can bump a wire, harness, or even loosen a connector so it's wiring to the sensors now "quit working" - this can also mean you got bumped by someone when you were parked and now the fender may be ok, but the wiring inside it, is not. The only tell-tale you got was a burnt out bulb.

Your car is a 2011, which means since it's 2023, some of the wiring exposed to the outside - becomes brittle and corroded - this bulb replacement may be an failure indication that you have more work to do.