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Car won't start after filling up gas tank, say I need a new evap tube.

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Des Moines
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IA
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2016 Ford Fiesta SE
#1
I bought my 2016 Fiesta SE on 11/9. Filled up gas on 11/9 and it started perfectly fine. After I filled the tank on 11/12, it refused to turn over all the way to start. I let it sit for a few minutes and it started right up. (I have a 90 minute commute each way to school, so I have to get gas a lot.) Had the battery and alternator checked and everything was fine. Then on 11/14, it would not start after I filled up again. Ended up calling the dealership and they gave me a loaner car.

So now my car's been in the shop since 11/14 and I haven't heard anything until today when I bugged them. They said it started, but needs a new evap tube. Can someone explain what that does? I've googled and I'm just not quite sure how that relates to the issue. Also, the part is on backorder until 12/10, so I'm stuck driving an Escape with crappy gas mileage until then.
 

scotman

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#2
I don't understand why it would be non functional because of a bad "evap line". More often the EVAP issue is an inability to fully or quickly refuel because of a stuck or defective purge valve on the vapor cannister. Any Evap system failure should also cause the MIL to light on the instrument cluster.
 
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Winnie
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TX
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2017 fiesta 1.6L SE
#3
I don't understand why it would be non functional because of a bad "evap line". More often the EVAP issue is an inability to fully or quickly refuel because of a stuck or defective purge valve on the vapor cannister. Any Evap system failure should also cause the MIL to light on the instrument cluster.
I don't understand why it would be non functional because of a bad "evap line". More often the EVAP issue is an inability to fully or quickly refuel because of a stuck or defective purge valve on the vapor cannister. Any Evap system failure should also cause the MIL to light on the instrument cluster.
I bought my 2016 Fiesta SE on 11/9. Filled up gas on 11/9 and it started perfectly fine. After I filled the tank on 11/12, it refused to turn over all the way to start. I let it sit for a few minutes and it started right up. (I have a 90 minute commute each way to school, so I have to get gas a lot.) Had the battery and alternator checked and everything was fine. Then on 11/14, it would not start after I filled up again. Ended up calling the dealership and they gave me a loaner car.

So now my car's been in the shop since 11/14 and I haven't heard anything until today when I bugged them. They said it started, but needs a new evap tube. Can someone explain what that does? I've googled and I'm just not quite sure how that relates to the issue. Also, the part is on backorder until 12/10, so I'm stuck driving an Escape with crappy gas mileage until then.

I'm having the same issues- what was the result?
 

econoboxrocks

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#4
This comes up in the ST forums quite a bit. The general consensus is that you DON'T TOP IT OFF. When the pump clicks off, that's it. Let it sit with the handle in the filler for a minute for the fuel to settle down.
If that doesn't work, the next culprit is probably the purge valve.
 

26street

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#5
???? I have a 2016 se and it starting having the same problem—- after a fill up and I never top off since new the car surges and almost stalls but after running down the road a bit it’s ok

I see that everyone is saying the purge valve is the problem can anyone tell me which one of these 2 part numbers is the right one
1) BM5Z-6A785-C
2) CU5Z-9F945-A
The parts book showing 2 just want to make sure which one
Thx
 

scotman

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#6
I got a replacement purge valve through Motorcraft parts. They are the same as service parts but are distributed through a different distribution system.
It was number cx2456 and cost around $25 bucks.
I didn't see a service part number on the box. 375x375_products-MCT-CX2456.jpg
 

26street

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#7
Thx now I know which one I’m looking for makes it so much easier
 

Handy Andy

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#8
Partly the reason for that discrepancy is due to type of Injection as well as Size of motor.

TDI versus GDI ...

1.0 L eco-Boost vs 1.6 Normally Aspirated

I'll look around my motor to find a number for you shortly..I have SE 2018 1.6 NA type...
\
Here ya' go!
1634485911501.png
OR rotated 90 degrees...
1634485933593.png
As of this valve date 11/3/18 06:08.33
BV61-9G866-AA​

At one point there was a TSB / FSB - on this valve or similar that made a "clacking" sound loudly enough to warrant a recall. So check into that when you have the time to get this to a dealer. (At least one willing to work with you...not that they don't. But if the valve failed OPEN - it can crush the innards of the Canister - but not "kill" the start of the car - it can then leak fuel out of the gas tank onto the floor.)

BM5Z-6A785-C - Vapor Canister Purge Valve

This is the "canister" it's on...
1634557722358.png

This thing?
CU5Z-9F945-A
1634557972596.png
Er...no ...​

1634558096117.png Unless you drive a Ford Fusion or Transit - wrong valve...

This may be an expensive lesson, but if you just fill until it "clicks off" that is the best method.

Fuels these days have got lot of detergents and surfactant additives that allow the fuel to clean and vaporize far more easily than the fuels made just a decade ago. They also have a lot more Ethane-based (Alcohol - Methyl and Ethyl) stuff to act like a burnable "filler" - their H-O-C chains are a lot shorter than your typical Gas (the Octane Value on the pump) so although it burns - the shorter chains do not provide as much energy as their longer chain Petroleum counterparts.

Kingsford anyone?
1634604961240.png
These newer blends? Creates a bit of a condition of "Evap" overload that can prevent the car from starting because Ethyl and Methyl are also excellent solvents - destroying the canister and dissolving the charcoal - putting this mess into the line to be burned at the engine - which if not careful can cause engine damage. It's why you have all those check valves and screens to keep charcoal from getting sucked in, but remember too - there are other problems - air, water and debris trapped in this media - so anything that the valve cant pull - will set a code - but if the canister fails - another type of air leak with no vapors - just air - can form - causing a LEAN condition where you can't start the vehicle because it runs too lean

Now before you can inject (SIC) that the Charcoal doesn't dissolve - er no not directly - but if you use lighter fluid - the charcoal "softens" into a powder - which makes the air getting pulled thru the system to Purge the fumes out of the canister - harder to get thru. If you research EVAP canister innards thru You Tube, you'll see the charcoal lays loose in the canister. So it's not "secured" in a mesh like a catalytic converters core - it's only held back from getting sucked into the motor by a set of screens, or media filters. Got into an accident with careless drivers? Watch out - that is when your cars' back end gets hit, can cause problems with the delicate balance the EVAP system is with the fuels of today - and will give you troubles.

Since this is an emissions issue and you just bought it, just don't top it off all the time if you can avoid the 2nd or third click off top-off moments to try and squeeze more into it. I've done this before with my other vehicles - it's already had that happen to some of my cars from other brands I've owned and it will cause drivability problems if you keep doing it. They honor warranty problems once, keep causing the same condition - it can, will fail, and does get expensive.
 

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26street

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#9
Thanks for all the info this is what I got from Ford it match’s the pics but comes with the lines on it C8866633-4BF5-4B5B-B9F3-32EFEC9AFC39.jpeg C8866633-4BF5-4B5B-B9F3-32EFEC9AFC39.jpeg 260033EF-145A-4047-AA60-9FD38D646943.jpeg and replace it going to see in a few days when I fill up if everything is good
 

Handy Andy

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#10
Remember too, to make sure the line to the back is ok too!

Might want to pull some vacuum thru that line that is from that valve - the one that goes to the back and see if it's clear. If it's plugged, then theres more work to be done.

Remember the Charcoal in that canister under the tank - can break down and get sucked into the line - causing a plugging problems further towards the engine or even in the engine itself. (EGR Valve back flow opening - and staying open - will set a code though...) A Fiesta with a Manual Transmission does NOT have an EGR valve - it's a LEV-II class - you'll see it on the sticker under the hood - it will say EGR on it - if it' doesn't then the "hard start" are related to the EVAP and even Throttle Body issues - so there may be more problems you'll have to sort out in this.
 

26street

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#11
Thx for the info I did check the valve and line I removed for fuel and dirt was clear
I’m at a half a tank now will be a few days before I get fuel and see what happens
 

Handy Andy

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#12
Good job - you got it back from the shop...

A concern though, and you may not be aware of issues around it.

It deals with a "flood recovery" IF the vehicle was involved or stalled in a flood - this does not bode well for the canister system - water can easily get sucked up into it and even into the fuel tank - which will cause intermittent problems in both starting and running.

The system is set up to purge fumes from the fuel tank all the time and allow fumes to collect when it sits - to collect to be burned in a later engine run. So if it has water in the canister or the canister needs service - you'll have harder and harder times in starting it. A code will get set eventually - but in the meantime it can stall out at the most inopportune times when you need it the most...

  • simply because you can suck in water into the engine and causes the stall, or worse - a code gets set and the fuel pump shuts off until it can be cleared - rare occurrence but this is when the system thinks it's been in an accident and the self-protect feature engages. (even a blown fuse from the "stalled" motor in the tank pops the modules system powering it.)
 

26street

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#13
Ok guys first fill up since I replace the valve and she did not stall and stumble ran great
Thx for all the info
I will be do the timing belt soon just got the tool to hold the cams and lock the crank all I need now is time lol
And yes I will be replacing the water pump and all the other goodies as well lol
 


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